A.
Call to Order and Roll Call
The meeting of the
Road Commission was called to order at
6:30 PM
by Robert Quandt. Planning
Secretary, Lisa Ekelund called the roll call.
Present:
Road Chairman, Robert Quandt; Commissioner, Jerry Curran;
Commissioner, Jo Owen; Commissioner, Michael Smith; Commissioner, Troy
Sathe.
Others
Present: Planning
Secretary, Lisa Ekelund and 3 members of the community.
B.
Pledge of Allegiance
The Chairman,
Commissioners, staff, and citizens present joined in the Pledge of
Allegiance.
C.
Unfinished/Old Business
·
Review of the Draft Stormwater Ordinance
Chairman Quandt stated
he would like to have a brief discussion on the Stormwater Ordinance.
Chairman Quandt stated
regarding the surety bond, in his conversations with the Dyer
partnership, they had some ideas of a graduated use of different types
of mechanisms that can be used. Chairman
Quandt said a blanket use of a surety bond for everything may not be
the correct way to go.
Chairman Quandt stated
he has concerns of blending the ordinance and manual within the
manual. Chairman Quandt
said there are mandates contained in the manual that conflict with the
ordinance itself.
Chairman Quandt said
there is unfunded mandate of the health and safety officer.
Chairman Quandt said the health and safety officer is clearly
almost a full time engineering level position.
Chairman Quandt said without having someone in this position,
the ordinance would be useless.
Chairman Quandt said
there are many requirements inside the manual and read 3.2.2 City
Maintained Facilities. Chairman
Quandt said this puts the responsibility of the maintenance of every
private properties stormwater facilities, the responsibility of the
city.
Commissioner Curran said
the manual tells a person how to do it (either A, B, or C) but the
ordinance is different as it says this is compliance, this is law;
this is what you need to do.
Chairman Quandt said
this is part of the problem because the manual doesn't just tell you
how to do it and this is one of those things that should be in the
ordinance but it's actually in the manual.
Commissioner Smith said
the manual is actually legislating in addition to and separate from
the ordinance.
Chairman Quandt said one
of the other concerns is when you try to learn about applicability,
there's not a good separation between the applicability and exemption
sections. Chairman Quandt
read 99.30 and said the wording has been modified but it implies that
anything over 500 sq. ft. would initiate the requirements.
Chairman Quandt said the applicability section needs to cover
many other things and needs to be expanded where the exemptions need
to be shrunk.
Chairman Quandt said in
chapter 2 where it explains how to use the ordinance there is
reference to items that are not there. Chairman Quandt said there
needs to be clear reference to items.
Chairman Quandt said in
regards to health and safety inspector, they need to be available for
projects over 501 sq. ft. Chairman
Quandt said he is worried about a flood of people asking for
exemptions and the city not having the ability to process them.
Commissioner Sathe said
he went over the surety bond issue last time.
Commissioner Sathe recommends changing the 500 sq. ft. to 1000
sq. ft. like the erosion control.
Commissioner Sathe said by doing this modification, it brings
uniformity to the ordinances.
Commissioner Smith asked
if DEQ gives any recommended numbers and questioned where the 500 sq.
ft. came from.
Chairman Quandt said the
500 sq. ft. is arbitrary and they need only recognize that this is so.
Chairman Quandt stated if it were raised it would remove some
of the requirements and burdens of the health and safety inspector.
Chairman Quandt stated
Commissioner Owen mentioned if the ordinance is workable and if the
city has the resources to implement this.
Chairman Quandt stated he doesn't believe the city has the
resources.
Chairman Quandt said
there is a structural flaw that cannot be solved by edits but rather a
deeper look at the structure of the relationship between the ordinance
and the manual is necessary.
Commissioner Quandt said
there are also other requirements as far as Stormwater management
facilities installed on private property.
Chairman Quandt said when you get into the right to enter area
combined with the notation in the operation and maintenance section,
it appears that this could create much conflict if they have a
situation where all the private facilities are now city maintained,
combined with the right to enter provisions in the ordinance itself,
it doesn't appear to be a healthy relationship between the city and
the citizens. Chairman
Quandt said he thinks there could be an easier way with handling the
requirements
Commissioner Smith read
section 99.70 subsection b and c stating he thinks they should state
for the record that good intentioned people worked on this but LCOG
let the city down and gave the city something that doesn't work.
Chairman Quandt said
they could solve the problem if they are able to take a step back and
redesign the instructions for what they want out of the ordinance.
Chairman Quandt said there is a need for a proper list of work
instructions. Chairman
Quandt said the engineering firm could design exactly what the city
needs.
Chairman Quandt
reiterated what the commission had discussed another issue he had
regarding exposed soils. Chairman
Quandt questioned the dates and questioned if this is possible and if
it's a reasonable amount of time.
Commissioner Owen
questioned who would monitor and enforce it and Chairman Quandt said
Commissioner Owen makes a good point.
Chairman Quandt said in
regards to appendix A, it's missing and is important.
Chairman Quandt said without appendix A to refer to as it is
mentioned, they don't have a working ordinance.
Chairman Quandt said the Dyer Partnership had started work on
appendix A and according to them; they were trying to fit it in with
what the city needs.
Commissioner Sathe said
appendix A needs to be a decision tree matrix and Chairman Quandt
agreed.
Chairman Quandt said the
other issue is the graduated requirements based on job size.
Chairman Quandt said
another issue is the manual itself.
Chairman Quandt said other cities refer to manuals such as the
DEQ manual. Chairman
Quandt said the city wouldn't need to update the DEQ manual, which
would be beneficial, because it would be done by the other agency.
Commissioner Sathe said
the only trouble with using a DEQ manual is it might have stuff in it
that's not what
Dunes
City
wants to do so if the city sets itself to go with that manual, the
city is setting itself to go whatever direction DEQ goes instead of
how the city chooses.
Commissioner Smith said
if city wants specifics from the manual, it would be entered in the
ordinance.
Commissioner Curran
questioned why not use both the City's and the DEQ's manual.
Chairman Quandt said
there is no need.
Commissioner Curran
asked who ordered LCOG to consolidate this in the first place.
Chairman Quandt said he
didn't know.
Commissioner Curran
questioned wasn't this done under the direction of the last attorney.
Commissioner Curran said he thought this whole thing was done
because the city was trying to not have to have this go through the
DLCD and the city could get a safety and health officer involved.
Commissioner Curran said because of this, the city had to
re-write all of this for the health and safety officer and then the
city finds out they can't afford to have a health and safety officer
and it's in operable.
Commissioner Smith said
the commission hasn't mentioned the conflict between the ordinance and
manual with regards to ownership of facilities and the maintenance
thereof.
Commissioner Smith
questioned at this point with this large list of concerns and the
obvious negative workability, is the commissions recommendation to
council that the ordinance be scrapped.
Chairman Quandt said the
best thing to do now would be to revue everything and either start
from scratch or review everything from scratch.
It may be faster and more effective to start over but if they
recognize there are flaws that need to be solved that go beyond
editing then he thinks the recommendation would have to be that the
ordinance needs to be reworked before it's submitted.
Commissioner Curran
agreed that it doesn't work. Commissioner
Curran said the city is not rushed right now and he believes they
should sit back, sort it out, and get it done right.
Commissioner Owen
pointed out the importance of simplifying the ordinance so it's easily
understood.
Chairman Quandt said the
Dyer Partnership said they could simplify it.
Chairman Quandt asked if
there were any audience members who would like to speak
George Burke 4838
Lake
Blvd.
Mr. Burke stated this
first came to the city when he was the chairman of the planning
commission. Mr. Burke said
he's spent hundreds of hours reading this, comparing it to the DEQ's
manual and the final thought is the erosion control is done with the
manual being the DEQ's manual. Mr.
Burke said everything in the state works to the DEQ manual.
Mr. Burke said some cities have opted to have their own rules
over and above the DEQ manual. Mr.
Burke said DEQ takes care of erosion and stormwater.
Mr. Burke said he believes the city can live with the DEQ
manual as a start to the erosion and stormwater control and if the
city finds new things in the future, the city can add to the
ordinance. Mr. Burke said
the DEQ manual has been used for 17 years by the state and the state
updates the manuals all of the time.
Chairman Quandt said he
realizes LCOG's original mishandling of the subject carries through
alot of the problems.
John Stead
83505 South Cove Way
Mr. Stead said what
they've been trying to do is fix something they didn't know was dead
and the notion to start over is probably a good thing.
Mr. Stead said a lot of people have learned a lot of stuff that
relates to erosion control and Stormwater, making People are more
sensitive to the needs and what will or will not work.
Mr. Stead said all that experience will make it easy to start
from scratch, which is something they couldn't not do before.
Mr. Stead said some cities use stormwater and erosion control
in one ordinance and what Mr. Burke said regarding using the DEQ
manual makes sense. Mr.
Stead said the stormwater manual needs to support the erosion control
and visa versa.
Chairman Quandt said he
will be at the planning commission meeting and he likes the fact that
they are switching gears to finding a solution rather than just
editing.
Commissioner Owen made the motion that the Road Commission makes the
recommendation that includes the following items:
1.
The surety bond size of job.
2.
The Health and Safety Officer.
3.
No appendix A.
4.
The exemptions.
5.
The 500 sq. ft. should be increased in footage.
6.
Private property and city owned storm drain
clarification.
7.
The manual and ordinance (2 separate documents that
conflict).
8.
Unclear applicability.
9.
Decision tree matrix.
10.
Simplify.
Commissioner Sathe seconded the motion. The motion carried with
4 ayes 0 nays.
Commissioner Smith made the motion that the current draft of
the Dunes City Stormwater
Management Ordinance Chapter 99 be re-examined for the list of
concerns included already by Commissioner Owen and possibly
rewritten to be
a workable more easily understandable and enforceable ordinance
for the city.
Commissioner Curran seconded the motion.
The motion carried with 4
ayes 0 nays.
Mr.
John Stead
mentioned the Road Commission was thinking about including the
DEQ manual.
Commissioner Smith moved they amend the list of concerns
included in Commissioner
Owens approved motion to include the use of a standardized manual such
as the
Oregon
State
DEQ manual. Commissioner
Sathe seconded
the motion. The
motion carried with 4 ayes 0 nays.
·
Discussion and Review of revised Driveway and Access
Permits
Chairman Quandt said he
revised the permits to reflect procedure; he removed the extra
signature lines put in last month, and he left it in the simple form. Chairman
Quandt said they separated the driveway access permit and the driveway
permit.
George Burke 4838
Lake
Blvd.
Mr. Burke said last year
there was a change in the permits made by the Road Commission that
required the driveway and the access to be installed before a person
could get a building permit. Mr.
Burke said these are two totally unworkable situations put on the
homeowners. Mr. Burke said
the way it had been working was a person applied for an access permit,
they cut and graveled the access. Mr.
Burke said there's no way you could run concrete trucks and heavy
vehicles loaded with lumber down a brand new driveway unless you pour
a concrete driveway without increasing to a 6" asphalt with an
8" base to build a driveway that will never be needed and have
something usable after you get done that you don't have to tear out
again when the house is built.
Chairman Quandt stated
the Commission is not dealing with this issue on these permits and the
haven't added in those provisions.
Commissioner Smith said
Mr. Burke is absolutely right because it's the first line on the
driveway access permit. Commissioner
Smith read the line that stated, "Access onto a city street must
be paved prior to issuance of a building permit".
Commissioner Smith said heavy machinery would possibly break
it.
Chairman Quandt
clarified that the line Commissioner Smith read related to the apron
only and that there is a clear separation but perhaps the Commission
should re-evaluate the line item before the permit is adopted.
Planning Secretary, Lisa
Ekelund stated she was not aware that the Road Commission was
proposing a change to their permits.
Lisa Ekelund requested the Road Commission allow her to review
the permits before adoption to make sure there is clear cross
reference between the planning and road departments.
Chairman Quandt said
there is no rush on this so the Commission will have the planning
secretary review the permits and the Commission will discuss them next
time.
·
Approval of Permit for
Central Lincoln
People's Utility District (CLPUD)
Chairman Quandt said
there is a copy of Ordinance 170 and a letter written to Robin Read in
front of the commissioners.
Chairman Quandt said
last time the Road Commission decided to defer this temporary right of
way use permit because they wanted comment from CLPUD as to why they
won't fix the hole. Chairman
Quandt said the response from CLPUD was that it wasn't their
responsibility to fix the hole and it was the homeowners'
responsibility to fix it, as Mr. Mark Harrison is the one who bore
under the road. Chairman
Quandt stated Mr. Harrison did this under the clpud
contract and also said he called Robin Read from CLPUD today.
Chairman Quandt said when he read Ordinance 170 (which is the
franchise agreement with clpud);
Ms. Read immediately took responsibility and agreed to have the
hole fixed. Chairman
Quandt said CLPUD will fix the hole this week.
Regarding the pending
permit request on
Cloud Nine Rd.
, Chairman Quandt said it is in the right of way, it's
straightforward, and it doesn't appear to be any issue from what they
have been given. Chairman Quandt questioned if there are concerns or
the desire for a site review.
Commissioner Smith
questioned if anyone remembers the placement of the existing
transformer. Commissioner
Smith said he knows there's a box on the other side of Summerbell,
which is the SW corner of Summerbell and Cloud Nine.
Chairman Quandt said
this would be important because they would have to cut under the road.
Chairman Quandt said they could defer the decision to a site
review. Chairman Quandt
said if they do defer the decision to a site review, the Road
Commissioners could go on the site review and make the decision during
the site review.
Chairman Quandt said
there are provisions in place in chapter 90 that he doesn't think
people have been acting on. Chairman
Quandt said the city has recourse when it comes to cuts such as
utility cuts in the city streets.
Chairman Quandt said there is existing code that gives the Road
Commission the option to request surety bonds for cuts in the road.
Chairman Quandt said for future reference, if it becomes a
problem, then the city has recourse by asking for bonds associated
with each of the cuts.
ACTION
ITEM
Commissioner Sathe made the motion that the Road Commission refer the
CLPUD permit decision to site review.
Commissioner Smith seconded the motion. The motion carried
unanimously by vote of 4 ayes and 0 nays.
The site review for the
CLPUD permit was set for
Wednesday 4/29/09
at
5:30 PM
on Cloud Nine at the intersection of Summerbell.
D.
Unscheduled Items Not Listed on Agenda
ACTION
ITEM
Commissioner Sathe made the motion that this month, the Road Commission
decide which streets are going to be swept and have the sweeping of
the streets done before June 30th, 2009.
Commissioner Curran seconded the motion.
The motion carried by vote of 4 ayes and 0 nays.
Commissioner Smith made the motion that the Road Commission follow
through on one of the Road Commissions former action items from an
earlier agenda a couple of months ago and do the research required
with obtaining the backhoe and heavy equipment that they discussed
possibly obtaining prior, money that's been budgeted in this fiscal
year.
Chairman Quandt asked
Commissioner Smith how he wanted to approach the issue because the
Road Commission has other issues they need to work out.
Chairman Quandt said with all of the related issues, if they
were to take on this project, they would have to have those things
sorted out. Chairman
Quandt asked if Commissioner Smith would like the issue put on the
agenda.
Commissioner Smith
amended his motion.
ACTION
ITEM
Commissioner Smith made the motion to add to the Road Commissions next
months agenda a discussion on the requirements that would need to be
in place for the city to purchase heavy equipment.
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Sathe.
The motion carried by vote of 4 ayes and 0 nays.
E.
Adjournment
Commissioner Owen made the motion to adjourn the meeting.
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Smith.
The motion carried unanimously by vote of 4 ayes and 0 nays.
The Road Commission
meeting adjourned at
8:18 PM
. The next regularly
scheduled Road Commission meeting will begin at
6:30 PM
on
May 18, 2009
.
___________________________
______________________________
ROBERT
QUANDT
LISA EKELUND
CHAIR
PLANNING SECRETARY